valery legasov tapes transcript

Say, a steam generator breaks down at some station, and they start to think about how to change its design, and, of course, come up with a solution that improves the situation. Although the power plant is called Chernobyl Station, it is situated 18 kilometres away from this regional city. That's probably what happened. Just think about it; we have a dozen such reactors, the Americans have 90 of them, the British have 40 and the French have 60. The tragedy, of course, was the primary background against which everything was going on. Groundwater was only 32 meters deep under the Chernobyl station. Secondly, it would ensure that the heat transfers to the metal structures and then they would transfer the heat to the air faster. When the first experiments in 1982 and 1983 showed that during a coastdown, the turbine does not maintain the necessary electrotechnical parameters to serve the stations own needs, nobody even thought about solving this problem from the other side, more precisely, reducing the time needed for the backup diesel generators to start and output at the required levels. Then we must describe the accepted scenario of what happened in the reactor with the fuel: the time when it started heating, the time when it stopped heating, the cooling system and so on. Then another hour or so passed as the situation with the plane was ascertained, and this group of people flew out early in the morning to the location. Adamovich: And the people had already been evacuated. It was absolutely clear to us that no explosion was possible, only evaporation that would carry out radioactive particles - thats all. This created, so to say, a stressful environment for those who were working there, who were doing the decontamination. For this temperature range, lead would be the most suitable element which would additionally act as a shield against radiation. For example, the Kansk-Achinsk coal basin, just in its upper layers, contains 2 million curies of alpha-active, long-living isotopes. [1] Legasov only spoke up to admit that scientists had failed in their duty[1] and that he had been warning about the safety problems of the RBMK reactor for years but nothing had been done. They then themselves went to the most contaminated areas and covered them with these solutions. His report was noted for its great detail and relative openness in discussing the extent and consequences of the tragedy,[24] disclosed to Western media some defects in the RBMK reactor design such as the positive void coefficient, as well as problems with operator training. This mistake was fundamental. He organized a team in one of the industrial areas of Pripyat that would prepare these solutions. My responsibilities included chemical physics, and separation of isotopes and substances, as well as the use of nuclear energy in the domestic infrastructure in the form of isotopes or something else. Legasov: In the morning on the 27th and at night on the 26th. There is a lot of graphite, a lot of zirconium and water. I have to start the part where I create my memoir. First of all, it must be noted that this is an experiment that should not have been performed at a nuclear power plant, because the value of turbine coastdown at idle is something that should be measured on a special stand built by the designer of the turbine. The pumping devices were turned on and this water was pumped out. This information captured my imagination and I devoted all my subsequent professional work to synthesising such unusual compounds, using various physical methods, that would be powerful oxidizing agents, have a number of unusual properties which I was happy to work on, and on the basis on which it was possible to build a whole range of technological processes. However, this point of view of the experts was not considered. [1], The conference was a public relations triumph for the Soviets as it reassured Western governments and scientists that the disaster was being contained[26] and that the Soviets could competently manage nuclear power in the future. Although, generally, the cumulative doses were doubtless quite high due to the enormous amount of work, and the enormous number of people involved. [1] Bencana Chernobyl [ sunting | sunting sumber] Numerous councils, interdepartmental or departmental, created an overall atmosphere of joint responsibility for the quality of the device. )", "Chemist, investigator of Chernobyl nuclear accident dies at 51", "Legasov suicide leaves unanswered questions", INSAG-7 The Chernobyl Accident: Updating of INSAG-1, "A bust of Hero of Russia Valery Alekseevich Legasov will be installed in Tula", https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Valery_Legasov&oldid=1133988963, Chief Scientific Advisor of the commission investigating the Chernobyl disaster, This page was last edited on 16 January 2023, at 13:14. As for neutron sensors, they were the responsibility of CNIIP [Central Science Research and Project Institute] of the Ministry of Medium Machine Building. So the radioactive particles were filtered out by this layer. Various parts of fuel assemblies were visible. At this time, both the Army and the regional organisations allocated builders for the construction of villages in which the evacuees could live. [5] Malicious rumors began to be circulated such as the accusation of being an alcoholic, over-ambitious or to blame for the Chernobyl disaster. After the medics signed, it was announced that the city is being evacuated. Firstly, it was domestic, which meant that it was not supported by any international experience. the building of the city party committee, located in the central square of the city. His life was never the same. And I spoke with Mikhail Sergeyevich in the second, third and fourth calls. All the troubles will be restricted to the area. The 9th of May celebrations were ruined and we decided to drop another 80 tons of lead inside the crater. Ofcourse, water contamination measurements were carried out constantly. I was filled with trust and respect for him Valery Alekseevich himself flew over the reactor by helicopter 5-6 times a day. A temperature at which a vapour-zirconium reaction could begin, accompanied by the generation of hydrogen was, in principle, unacceptable, be it routine work or technical conditions. But I am not sure that they will gather any additional information. So, for the Ministry of Medium Machine Building and, in this sense, also for Anatoly Petrovich Aleksandrov, there was an impression that this reactor, if operated properly and with reliability, is very good and normal. He was a man of courage, understanding everything, but at the same time defenseless. I was thinking about what should be the percentage of nuclear energy, and why it should be present in the Soviet energy sector. So it had already become possible to judge the correctness of technical decisions. As we approach the 25th anniversary of the accident at the Soviet nuclear power plant in Chernobyl, it is appropriate to commemorate the life of the academician, Valery Legasov, who in addition to his indisputable scientific accomplishments, also demonstrated a total independence of spirit and complete sincerity regarding this disastrous accident. Yes, and I also wanted to talk about the administrative systems. That is why the words of Nikolai Ivanovich Ryzhkov should be understood in a much wider context. These are the same industrial reactors that the Americans have. Why do I say this? This increase in the number of people required new ways of organizing work because it was no longer possible to personally give specific instructions and be done with it. For example, a scientific supervisor for aviation. Another mistake was that with such technology, it is dangerous to not go the way the world is going. To do this, a wide range of chemical solutions were tested that had to be practical, could cut off the contaminated areas while letting water through but, prevent considerable spread of dust. And then, from the position of Vladimir Mikhailovich Novikov, state that the level of device that we currently have is probably sufficient to ensure that Chernobyl does not happen again. The number was not precise, but it was clear that around 100 people had gotten radiation injuries. This situation was not normal for a science centre. And the very fact that the station could independently perform any actions not authorised by the experts is already a defect in the relationship of the experts with this station. The Legasov Tapes Featured August 16, 2019 Tape 1 side A Aym96/Wikimedia In all my life, it never occurred to me that I would have to start this part of my life. And there was another episode. Conference Footage. This is only a specific example. It also decomposes the same way. For example, a team from Pravda and the famous head of the science section Gubarev, Odinets, many good Ukranian journalists and documentary filmmakers appeared there. Legasov: RBMK? He himself spent a lot of time on the site and under his leadership, the robots were created, tested and used. Because it is a chain that links to itself allowing operation of stations without an external localisation shelter. The fault of Anatoly Pavlovich Alexandrov is that he, albeit reluctantly, consented. This was sort of the main task in that period. And what international measures have been taken, what conventions have been adopted, what was the Soviet position on international cooperation. The following decisions were taken. Of course, the decontamination of the 1st and 2nd reactor buildings in preparation for their reactivation was also something the army was involved in. This is underwear that we were dreaming of. Except for the station workers, and some workers that were needed to operate public services. Because information came out in separate blocks. The work was like a well organized science team. So, [in Chernobyl] our press reported a lot of information of the second type, about people, about their impressions, about what was happening there, but reported very little, unlike the TASS regular, about what has happened so far and what has changed. All this was delivered to relatively dirty rooms, and was prepared for eating in the same place with bare hands. It was clear that heat was being generated inside this fuel mass. Can the Soviet Union, for example, limit the number of devices that are there, gradually put those that have no cover out of service, and hence, switch to fossil fuel. Various probes had been put inside, thanks to which the temperature, radiation fields, radionuclide movements could be measured; two, cleaning the area of the ChNPP itself; three, construction of the tunnel under the foundation of reactor number 4, and creating the perimeter of the 30-kilometer zone; continuing the dosimetric work and starting the decontamination tasks. They were communicating, continuously, constantly. In the first few days, on separate spots of the river basin, it must be said, activity of up to 10-8 curie per litre was detected in some water samples. This was an enormous task that required moving masses of people, creating the necessary control systems and quickly planning the logistics and work. They started flyovers above reactor number 4 to assess the situation. This device did not have any mechanical rods (mechanical, well, it could work well or it could work badly) or other safety systems that would be independent of the operator, and would work solely based on the state of the zone. Now, the station personnel, who were supposed to service the 1st and 2nd blocks in shifts, were transferred 50 kilometres away to the pioneer camp, Skazochniy. Whether it made a big difference is hard to say. One operator calls another and asks, Valera, here in the program, its written what needs to be done, but then a lot of it is crossed out. God forbid, had any of them been implemented, they would only have complicated future work. If there's one thing a specialist knows about a nuclear power plant, it's that it does not exhaust any gases. For this, they used both statistically reliable samples that were gathered on the sitefollowed by analysis in the radiochemical laboratories that had been deployed in Chernobyl, and some samples were sent to the institutes, the Radio Institute or the Institute of Nuclear Energyand measurements of gamma fields made using helicopters. In addition, they were also responsible for ensuring that the evacuation was carried out without panic, without any sense of panic, any excess that would hamper normal work. On April 26th, 1986, a nuclear explosion at the Chernobyl power plant rocked the area near the Ukrainian town of Pripyat, spreading giant clouds of radioactive material across 77,000 square miles of land. For some reason, this was not accepted. You know, I couldn't even assume that the Operative group would make such strong-willed purposeful decisions. The station personnel was transferred to a Pioneers camp Skazochniy, that was 10 km from Pripyat. The decisions were made on the 26th of April, and carried out from that day through the 2nd of May. By the characteristics of the explosion, by the glow, by the dispersion, it is clear that the system had a volumetric-detonation explosion. Now it is necessary to describe in detail how the experiment itself went, who approved it, who didnt approve it, how procedures were violated and how the accident developed. W, flying on an airplane from there and as soon as he arrived, we would load into, the already prepared aircraft and fly to Kiev, where we would go by car to the, The first, approved, now I say from memory, was, in addition to Comrade, SHCHERBINA, the Minister of Energy MAYORETS, the Deputy Minister of, Health VOROBYEV Evgeny Ivanovich, who also arrived from another region of, the Soviet Union in Vnukovo, slightly earlier than Shcherbin. In case of such and such signal, at such and such place, assemble a specific emergency team to dispatch here in Moscow. The same was true for all materials, say, magnesium oxide, containing carbon. For example, a group of citizens asked the Government Commission for permission to evacuate in their own cars. Secondly, install the maximum number of sensors that would ascertain the condition of reactor number 4. The leaders of the Government Commission, as well as the various experts that were arriving to perform certain tasks, lived there. Also, there are, of course, specific culprits. I repeat that and I personally was a witness to that. Now the investigation, additional investigation is underway and, I think, will probably judge the designers of the RBMK reactorat least they should be judged in my opinionwho made at least three grave mistakes in the design of this reactor. We will try to add the best prepper articles and videos! Legasov: Yes, yes. What is going on there? Say from cows who. There they would burst and cover a significant area; the solution would then polymerise and solidify. On April 28, Legasov was supposed to disclose to the government the data of his own investigation into the causes of the Chernobyl disaster. But for RBMK reactors, all the experience was domestic. Which button to press, how long to wait, what to do. The operators were all sweating; they could not control it because of its large size and the peculiarities of the nuclear processes. And the cavalcade of black cars, Chaikas and others, that were going there also reflected how little we knew and understood that day. In the tapes,. In this time, there would be an emission of radioactivity in aerosol form over large distances. And a good reactor specialist was one who had mastered the design of a particular reactor, who could ably calculate, say, the zone, who knew all the accidents that happen at a station, who could come to any facility and assist in its physical and organisatorial launch, quickly figure out what was happening there, and report to the management of the institute or the Ministry. I have the transcript for the first tape, which I want to post first, but it is in Russian and I need it translated in English. Exactly there is where this question had to be experimentally verified. For example, the Politburo correctly decided to create a relevant nuclear organization within the Academy of Sciences; because there is no alternative, no competition. But this is rubbish because all these rods are lowered by the operator; by the automatic system; by pressing a button, etc. The Operative group had to take many decisions about accepting or rejecting help from abroad, that was proposed at some time. Scientific proposals not being limited by the influence of those in power, and full opportunity for the execution of such proposals that the Ministry liked from an engineering point of view, was [the] correct [way of operating]. Formally however I had to be replaced in Silaevs team by Eugeny Petrovich Ryazantsev - deputy of the director of our Nuclear Energy Institute. The staff began to age. This station had a proper training simulator where everyone had to undergo regular training, and the various situations that could arise at a reactor were simulated. Valery Legasov died in 1996 (Image: HBO) Before his death, Legasov recorded a series of tapes which revealed the Soviet government's secrets about its nuclear industry. That is why I advised, and Shcherbina agreed with me, to announce that we cannot tell about the precise duration of the evacuation yet. I remember how during the war there were two types of daily communications which were published in our newspapers or TASS reports: where we recaptured German-occupied points, where we retreated, where we took a large number of prisoners, where we suffered a partial defeat. The reactor could explode. Now, Ponomaryov-Stepnoi became the first deputy director of nuclear energy who dealt with reactor construction. Operating experience, technical solutions that had been used, software, all these could be exchanged and adapted. Why? I understood, I must tell you honestly, that I understood that the city was being evacuated permanently. Secondly, the absence of systematic thinking on the part of the station management involved with this case. The meaning. He was at a loss because for him, the situation was, how do you say, not planned for. As far as I remember, I stopped the story at how I was struck by the precise work of our chekist [the KGB], who without any fuss, with very few people, did a lot of work to establish communications and bring order in the zone of the accident. The crater in the reactor produced a column of white smoke, several hundred metres long, most likely consisting of graphite combustion byproducts. That is why I provided some sort of patronage for these areas, well, whatever I could provide within the bounds of the Institutes authority. Legasov: Well, how should I put this. Such protective dams were built and had a positive effect. There could have been such cases but I never saw anything like it. Later, that work was assigned to comrade Batalin, the Deputy Chairman of the Council of Ministers. Only they had discarded all of our automatic control systems and put in Canadian ones. This is what occupied us on our hour-long flight. The original Russian transcripts from the recorded tapes of Valery Legasov. The graphite started burning, Adamovich: [Inaudible] judging by these notes that I, Legasov: The graphite started burning around the 26th or 27th, Adamovich: No, hold on. And all this should be collected into a group of unanswered questions, where we have the facts but no full explanations for those facts. From my point of view, he bears some degree of guilt, of course, small. The radiation conditions in Pripyat were considerably worse than normal, but at the time did not pose any significant danger to the people in the city. They checked the documentation - all the signatures were in place. During the check, it turned out that not only had the welder signed that he had done the welding properly, but also gamma-flaw detector who had checked this weld bead, the weld bead that didnt even exist. But it was not so. But because of panic. Legasov: Explosives. As I wrote in the proposals: the first perimeter at the station itself, a second one at a kilometre from the station, then 3-kilometre and 10-kilometre perimeters. The operative group held regular meetings where it was reported to about the radiation levels at each measurement point, all the details about the tasks being performed. Well, actually, they did struggle to keep the hydrogen bubble from exploding. The responsibilities were distributed in such a way that everything that was outside of the 30-kilometre zone was controlled both from the air and from the ground by the Goskomgidromet [State Committee on Hydrometeorology] led by member-correspondent Yury Antonovich Izrael. And against this background, against the background of lead contamination, to detect lead contamination caused by the 2400 tons scattered around was almost impossible. Valery Alekseyevich Legasov (Russian: ; 1 September 1936 27 April 1988) was a Soviet and Russian inorganic chemist and a member of the Academy of Sciences of the Soviet Union. At the same time, it would also be a kind of heat-conducting element. In the accident, no one was killed or exposed to radiation. Two, make the operation maximally reliable; trained staff, good discipline, easy-to-operate equipment, etc. In the last few months, I dont know what is going on because after I formed the group, I was excluded from this work. There were many books for experts, thick and accurate, well-written; these were stored in the libraries. These were small advantages, of course, but nevertheless. Because in the military industry, with a limited number of devices, strict military acceptance at multiple timesmilitary acceptance at the manufacturer, military acceptance during the operationmultiple examinations, staff retraining, etc And when you suddenly, with the same device, enter the domestic infrastructure where there is nothing similarno simulators, no training systems, no training systems at all, not to mention the training systems for emergencies. Then the next one arrives and so it goes on. We dropped another 80 tonnes of lead; that was the last large drop. An accident is possible in which organophosphorus compounds form, a single breath of which is lethal. Kuzmin and my work can be used here that considers this particular questionwhether it is possible to do without nuclear sources in our country which is so rich in fossil fueland shows that it is impossible. Legasov: Then they were destroyed, of course. It later became part of the Nuclear Energy Safety Department. That is why the stations being built in the last 5-6 years, the Zaporizhia station in Ukraine By the way, the station that was built near Minsk for you would have been built with containment. But in the end, I have to say this. If you would wish to read them, then here, we translated them for English readers: Tape 1 side A In this part Legasov speaks about his first days in the accident zone. After Rizhkov and Ligachev arrived on the site, as I have already said but I will repeat myself, the original GC left. So this process took two to three hours. But sometime around the 60s61, 62, 63, around that timeit became evident that a miscalculation had been made. [2][3][4] He attended secondary school in Kursk. We tried to use robots but this generally was not very successful. All of this had to be invented and organized on the spot, successfully or otherwise. But at the time it was understandable that they were preventative just in case some mass got through by accident. This was a difficult environment. They were ventilating the hydrogen bubble. A few kilometres before Pripyat There are 18 kilometres between Chernobyl and Pripyat. Because of these concerns, a group of scientists from Donetsk, out of the Ministry of Energy of Ukraine, were placed under my supervision. The total amount of words for the first tape is around 8000 words, but I might eliminate some of the text. Adamovich: I will note all this down. A very difficult and dangerous plant that had essentially been let loose without control. Every specialist who invents either an upgrade for an existing system or an entirely new system must prove the benefits of such innovation. So his comrade, having arrived to get familiar with the work of this [Chernobyl] station, reported that everything was wrong there. This design had to be done concurrently at the site and in the different design organizations located in cities across the Soviet Union, mainly in Moscow and Leningrad. These decisions determined the entire order of organisational work for the rest of the period. Only it should have happened, in my opinion, not at Chernobyl but at the Kola station, and a few years earlier; when it was discovered that in the main pipeline that carries the coolant, the welder, to get a bonus and to finish faster, just put electrodes inside and lightly welded them on top instead of welding the valve in the most critical spot. All that has been given to me so far shows no difference from Moscow to Minsk or anywhere else. Complex research was done in the cooling pond near the Chernobyl NPP, where the radioactivity of the water, as well as silt, was measured. I worked at this plant for about two years. But caesium and strontium, these emissions, they did spread to large areas. Between 25 and 75 rem is a matter for the local authorities. The station was under the supervision of our neighboring Ministry of Energy. And these werent just personal impressions. This means that a rapid expansion of steam, constantly thermally heated, led to the damage that was witnessed. Whereas our Gosplan made a potent miscalculation, based on an assumption that we have enough fossil fuel that will last for a long time and that we would practically not need nuclear energy. And when comrade Vedernikov and his team replaced Gusev, the construction of the sarcophagus had already begun. Valery Alekseevich Legasov About the accident at the Chernobyl nuclear power plant Academician V. Legasov (text from cassette N1) So General Berdov, who had arrived from Kiev, ordered that all policemen will go to every flat and inform that no one should go outdoors until the next day and should stay at home. A procedure for ordering materials was established already; a procedure for work fulfilment. And when we are dealing with VVER-type reactors, we can use the entire worlds experience. There is no other. This was simply an example of superior organisation and ignoring any danger, working very carefully and accurately. It was considered bad because of economic reasons. I was told that the members of the commission should gather at Vnukovo airport at 1600 hours. [26] Legasov noted that the operators were able to disable the reactor safety systems and stated that improvements to existing RBMK reactors were underway. However, the technological support for this complex cycle is outdated. It would have been very expensive. But here, suddenly, there was a crimson glow in half the sky and white smoke streaming out of the reactor. Helicopters dropped over 5 thousand tons of various materials onto the reactor. My first impression was that I hadnt come to a nuclear station. Because his laboratory was a kind of cell that posed questions and formulated them physically; while the answers to these questions were given by specialists, not only from the various departments of the Institute but also from different institutes. Is outdated difficult and dangerous plant that had been used, software, all these could be and. Purposeful decisions [ 2 ] [ 4 ] he attended secondary school in Kursk position on cooperation! Who were doing the decontamination to start the part where I create my.!, was the primary background against which everything was going on the regional organisations allocated for..., led to the damage that was 10 km from Pripyat exactly there is a matter for the authorities... Wait, what conventions have been taken, what was the primary background against which everything was on! 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